HISTORY THUCYDIDES OF THE P ELOPONNESIAN
'WAR
Translated by R ex Warner with an Introduction and Notes b y M . I. Finley
PENGUIN B OOKS
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~twcbOtbdydothiDk;dnccyoa~wasdaswcdo that, when these m#enarc d i d by practical paopk, the standard of justice d e p & on the quality of power t w p d o
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The Melion Dialogue 41615
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u. Wc arc more c o n d about islanden like y o d v c s , who s arc d unsubdued, or subjects who have Iltcrdy become &itl pr Mel~:Andhowd.ir~~asgoodfi#~m bechekhva Wd by the constmint which o w empire imposes on them. These aafhrywto be therm6ten3 . , arc the peoplt who are m s likely to act ina dew xnanner and ot 9 3 Athmtaru:You,by@iagin,(rr9oaldsavcyoufsehnrh& -&jh to bring thcmrelva and or, too, into the most obvious danger. aster; we, by natde#royiagyoa, would beableto profit fieam [fij Me1iu.m: Then d y , if such h a d arc taken by you t keep o F ir y ou empire and by your subjects t escape &DL it, we who are o w 3Lidfmrc:Sopondnotagrsemaa~bdagncuppl~ dl f would show o d v e s g r w c o d and vaWingr if k b md d d bur Pllior of ndtha side? we fhifbd t fktrything that comes rather than submit to o w o~ Ahdans: No, b aaust it is not s mnch yapr hostility dmt o Jovap. m~~or:itislPdrertheclw:tbPt,if~.~on~dly#m~ m ~ ~ o t l r . ~ ~ I r & p F d L h Z t ~ a s i g l l o f O f ~ lox Athenians: No, not ityou i d l c . Thir is no thir fish4 widr
~:As~~oti~~thntwtrmpircdoeccomre toancnd,wcarcnot~dcnrnbontwbatd~naa. One f ~ a o ~ m u c h ocmqrretad by a~ o w ~ofp I Isrrhich&~~'lsSp~tt~does(notthttwcrut~cd I with Spartanow), a s o f w h a t d d h o p p e n i f a ~ p o w a i r E ~ d ~ b y i a o w S ofirastftirpointt nm~ I ~poucmlcoveittousto&oethctihtin~~M~ I w crhpll&n~ttoahawyauthotitt~thegoodof~own ! empire that wc arehatand that it in fbr the patsemtion of your 't4qirhat,wc &dls aydmt wc arc going to spy. We do nor want m , ! y 4 h 3 1 @ l e h - ~ * ~ b m e m p k n wc want 'JIOtIt md o k 8pltad'kctxheigdsdboth d -pmdvmand of o d v e a .
tion should be made between people who are quite u n with you and people who are mostly your own c o l o h or elw: rebels whom you have conquered? m &him: So f ir as right and wrong arc conccmed they think that there is no difference between the two, that thasc who still preseme thcir independence do so becaw they arc strong, and that i fwe W t o attack them it is because we are ahid So that by conquering you we shall increase not only the size but the sb curity of our empire. We rule the s a and you arc islanders,and e weaker islanders too than the others; it is t h d r c particularly important that you should not escape. M efim: But do you tbink there i no d r y for you in what n 98 we w e s t ? For here again, since you will not let ua mention justice, but t us to give in to your intctestt,we, too, must t d d you what our interests arc and, if youn and o m happen to & cide, we m w try to pusuadc you of the f . it not cutaia that kIs you will makc encmia of all statu who arc at present neutral, whea they see what is happening h t and naturally oondudt &at u in come of time you will attack them too? Doer not thir me;m that you arc strengthening the encmics you have already and arc
and their inchtioflo? o gp Athenians: As a matter o f fict we are not s much i i g h d of sa on the contincat. They have their libeay, and tm &at it will be a long time M ore they begin t take precautionsagainat o
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The Dialogue Melian 41615
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in existence, and we shall leave it to exist for ever aniotlg '&& who come afkr us. We are merely acting in accordance with i4 and we know that you or anybody else with the same power as ours would be .acting in precisely the same way. And thercfore, so h as the gods are concerned, we see no good reason why we should fear to be at a disadvantage. But with regard to your views about Sparta and your confidence that she, out of a sense of honour, w ill come to your aid, we must say that we congratulate you on your simplicitybut do not envy you your folly. In matters that concern themselves or their own constittitian the Spartans are quite m mrhbly good; as for their relations with others, that is a long stony, but ir can be expressed s h o e and dearly by saying that ofall people *-know t h c ~ p k mt most corispica r uous for believing that -what &ey-Sika doing is 'limourable and what suits their interest. is j4. Afrd <this id efztbihde is not U going to be of much help to you in your absurd quest for s a f q at the moment. 106 Melians: But this is the very ppiat where we can feel most mue. Their own self-interest will afake them &se to betray their o wn colonists, the Melians, Eor that would m e . losing h e confidence of theii &ends among the Hellenes and doing good to theit enemies. 107 Athenians: You seem to forget that if one follows one's selfinterest one wants t o be safe, whereas the path of jugtia and honour involves one in danger. And, where danger is concerned, the Spartans are not, as a rule, very venturesome. rdl M iam: But we think that they would even endanger themselves for our sake and count the I%& more worth takhg than in the case ofothers, because we are so dose to thePeEopomese that they could~operatemozeasily, and because they c a n d t p d on us e mare than on o&m, 's'm* w e e af ube w e race and share the same f&lings. r Athenians: Goodwill s horn by the party that is asking for hdp w does not means d t y for the prospective ally. What is looked f a is r p d v e prepondctdnce of power in acdon. And the Spvtans pay attention to this point even more than others do. m y they d isaus~heir own native resources so much that when thep t atads a n e i they bring a great arnry of allies wt t h a ~~ ih