Paper 2 - 1 Rhetoric R1A, Section 5 September 21, 2007...

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Rhetoric R1A, Section 5 September 21, 2007 Topic #3 Speech number one and speech number two both argue for the same side: that is, a boy should give his friendship to a non-lover over a lover. Therefore, it seems the most appropriate to choose to contrast these two speeches. By doing so, the differences in persuasion and the use of rhetoric will become more obvious, and the reader can then realize that Socrates’ first speech holds enough truths to be considered more persuasive. Socrates begins his speech by advising the imaginary boy to seek the truth of the subject in order to make a good decision (Plato 16). Here, definition is the key in defending one’s belief: “…we should agree on defining what love is and what effects it has. Then we can look back and refer to that as we try to find out whether to expect benefit or harm from love” (Plato 17). In Socrates discussion of rhetoric, he claims that one must know the truth of the subject in order to properly teach it and must also be able to define it and divide it until it is no longer divisible (Plato 83). In Socrates point-of-view, being able to derive a definition is the most important aspect to composing a speech. This is because with definition, comes truth. To be a good speech maker, one needs to know the truth of the matter. Socrates also acknowledges the fact that, with truth, one needs to be able to properly persuade (Plato 55). However, he still strongly sticks with his principle that truth governs a speech’s quality: “As the Spartan said, there is no genuine art of speaking without a grasp of truth, and there never will be” (Plato 55). Instead of focusing on defining love as Socrates does, Lysias decides to omit that element all together. Socrates’ definition of love, quickly stated, is the desire for what is beautiful (Plato 1
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17). Lysias, like Socrates, does address the boy in the beginning and throughout his speech. However, according to Socrates, Lysias starts with the conclusion and speaks with very vague
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This note was uploaded on 09/10/2008 for the course R 1A taught by Professor Mascuch during the Fall '07 term at University of California, Berkeley.

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Paper 2 - 1 Rhetoric R1A, Section 5 September 21, 2007...

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