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Unformatted text preview: 2/7/12 transcript05.html Introduction to Ancient Greek Histor : Lec S 20, 2007<< , polis polis, .I' .I A .H , P ofe o Donald Kagan: O G polis ,I , B , basileus, ; I' , .T e 5 T an c ip I , .H , .S , ' , .S H , Works and Da s, , .H .H . .F Dike. S H , polis , .H , , .T S G G . W .O , , ' , , H .I B , , poleis .H polis ' .I , .H , .P .T , , G ' .T ' .T Z polis .I . .I , polis, , , polis , , poleis . -polis ' polis. T Iliad H /transcript05.html , .A .T Dike? Z .H ,Z .W , ' polis, , I 700 B.C. , polis. T , , Od sse . , "W , 1/12 G polis. T polis, -.R ' , , , Y , ,A C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ 2/7/12 transcript05.html i d. ed e a d I' g ig figh a ef poli ." Tha d ha e bee i c cei ab e i hi N , gi e hi i f a i , e a e he b e ha i be a b e f he G ee poli f he e f i hi a d i ' ea a be hi e da f a e e h i e i e f a ci ii ed c i . H d ec cie he i e e a d de i e , a d e bei g f he i di id a a d hi i edia e fa i i h h e f he c i a a ge? The a ee , a d bab igh e e be aid be, diffe e a d a ag i ic a e i , a d he he a e ha h d d ? F he G ee he a e a e c ea he eaf e . O e gh be i e e ed a d a e ac i beha f f he poli . We' be eei g hi i d f ag e a d e e ee ig i i ab i g i g i he f e. B b d i g i g be e c f ab e, if c f ab e a a . I d be a e ddba ii a e f he e f G ee hi .N , he igh hi g d i a e ca e f e f a d he he i h he poli . Tha ' ha ' e g i g hea . Wha ' e g i g hea i he c a . Li e bi a e , he e ge a i g ab S a a, ' ee a bea if e a e f ha i he f f he e f T ae , h i a e i S a a, a d h e e beca e ce a hei a f hi i g a d i i g ha he e e ed a a chi g g f he S a a a a he a ed, a d he a e he a e i , b I' c e bac ha . N , he e' a he d c e ha a be a a e f ha gi e e idea f ha he G ee fai ea h gh he poli a f a d ab , a d ha he e a i hi be ee i di id a a d poli a . I hi ca e I' a i g ab He d , h e ea i hi hi e he ea f hi i i L dia, he a d f he g ea T a C e , h i a he iche a i he d. I ' c ea ha hi e e e e ea ace, b i ' ea e i a , beca e ha He d i d i g i e i g h he, I hi , a d h he G ee i ge e a ie ed he e i a i e. S g e he i i C e . C e a ed S e hi h i he ha ie , he f a e--b h f h e hi g c ai ed i he d he e -- ha he had e e ee . S a a a f f ea , he a a a g ea e ec ed, a d he be e f he e e age ha he a cie G ee e ec ed f he i e e h e e e e. S , i d be i e e i g ha he h gh ab ha . Of c e, C oe had h hi g ea ea h a ead S .I ie , he he e i hi a . S , a he ed a d a hi fab ea h a d g ea g d f e, h d hi i he ha ie , f ae a e e e ?Y ha he a e a ha he e ec ed. S a e ed, Te f A he . I' be e e hea d f Te f A he , ei he had C oe , ei he had a b d e e ide f A he . C oe a a i hed a d he a ed S h did he e ec Te ? He e' ha He d a : Fi , beca e hi ci a f i hi g, ha i hi poli , a d he hi e f had b h bea if a d g d. The d i G ee a e kalo kaga ho f he i g a , kaloi kaga hoi f a a d i' a i d fa f a. I ea a ge e a ; i ea he be i d f e . If a e kalo kaga ho , i ea he i g d a a d hi i e ce e -- a ha c d e ec f a e . S , he had , bea if a d g d, a d he i ed ee chid e b each f he , a d he e chid e a g e , a d f he . Af e a ife e i ha e e a c f , hi e d a a ig g i . I a ba e be ee he A he ia a d hei eighb ea E e i he ca e he a i a ce f hi c e , ed he f e a d died he fie d ga a . The A he ia ga e hi a b ic f e a he he e he fe a d aid hi he highe h .S , a i e, he ha ie , he f a e a ha S e e e a a dead A he ia ha b d e e hea d f. Wh ? Wha d e hi a ? Righ , e ee i hi a age e hi g ha e ea ch ab ha he G ee a e e e a d ' ee h c e he e e ied i h he poli a d he i ac f he poli i hei i e . We , h a e hi g g d? We , hi ci , hi poli a C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 2/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html .A .N ' , T , , polis , , G , ?T ?I , .S ' .S , .O G .S , , , . -- , A polis, H T T . I' .T ,S , A A , I polis , H polis, - .Y polis , .B polis polis , , .H polis, . I' S A , . .A A .A , , B , , , ' , H , , .I .T ' .I' .S ' .S , : "S , , .S , ." T , eunomia H , , , . I' .B ' , ' G ' , , I , , , , . ' S , .I ' A eunomia .N , , , ?F C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ G , d snomia , .W , polis .S .W , polis . 3/12 G ?N , eunomia /transcript05.html 2/7/12 transcript05.html He i making a claim he e hich i a e ong, po e f l one, b hich a cha ac e i ic of he G eek and I an o o ake no e of i he e. He i gi ing he la and he poli ha gi e la . I ' no me el a nega i e hing he a I hink mode n idea abo la , a fo in ance, ep e en ed in he Ame ican Con i ion a e, hich i o a , i f nc ion i o p e en ong doing, o p ni h ong doing. I doe n' eall -- ell, le me j a ha he poli claim o do he e in Home . I claim ac all o hape he cha ac e of mankind. The poli make , a good poli , follo ing good la , make i ci i en be e . I no onl defea ong, b i c ea e igh and i c ea e ci i en ho beha e igh l . Thi i emendo l impo an beca e e e G eek a e ha e kno abo made he claim ha ha ' ha i did. No ma e ha i con i ion a , no ma e ho he e diffe ed f om one ano he , he idea a ha he a e ha o make good men and ha fo a ci o be good, he men m be good. Thi i e diffe en . If o hink abo he Ame ican idea a an e ample of he mode n a of hinking abo he e hing , he no ion i e can' do an hing. The la can' do an hing abo making people be e o o e, i ake hem a he a e and hen i deal i h hem acco dingl . B fo he ancien G eek ha a no eno gh. If o e en hink abo he fo nding fa he Madi on, Fede ali en, ba ed pon he p inciple ha o can e pec ha men ill do ong hing , and ha a good con i ion ha he ole of balancing he ong off again each o he , o a o p od ce he clo e app o ima ion po ible o j ice. Yo can onl do ha b balancing compe i i e de i e ha can be ho gh of a e il; fac ion a ha he e e alking abo and e e bod ho gh fac ion a bad, b i a ine i able. Yo co ldn' ge id of fac ion b a ing o men, i ' no good o be fac io , o ho ld hink of he hole comm ni a all ime . Tha ' no ha he Ame ican con i ion i abo , b i a ha he G eek con i ion e e abo . A poli o gh o make men like ha , and in fac , he e' a g ea e ol ion in he poli ical heo p e en ed b he Ame ican con i ion in ha i ' no he fi hing o do i , b i a he fi one ha a eall applied, in ning a a , ejec ing he po ibili ha a con i ion co ld make men be e . I accep ed he p emi e ha men e e ha he e e and ha he a e had o con ol ha b a io de ice . So, i ' e impo an o ee ho diffe en f om ha he G eek idea a and ha an eno mo e pon ibili he poli a ppo ed o ha e, and of co e i h ha , he e had o be an eno mo amo n of ppo fo he a e b he ci i en . Tha ' ano he hing I an o empha i e befo e I lea e hi bjec -- he o d, ci i en. We ho ld no ake ha fo g an ed. B he a , in G eek he o d ci i en i poli a , de i e f om poli . He' omebod ho li e in a poli ; he' a ci i en. Well, he e ne e a a ci i en in he o ld befo e he poli . The e a e onl bjec , people ho a e bjec ei he o a god, o o he king, o o a ep e en a i e of he god, o o a chief ain o hoe e , b omebod in a en e o n hem all, b nobod o n a ci i en. Thi i ome hing b and ne in he o ld and e hall ee ho i c op p in diffe en fo m and ho i hape he co e of G eek hi o . Well, hi hole b ine p e en he p oblem I men ioned a momen ago. All of ha e hi na al elfi hne hen e a e bo n. We all eek o o n in e e and oon e join p i h a famil , e an he famil ' in e e p o a poin , b ho i hi fi oge he i h he need of he comm ni a la ge? A p oblem he G eek al a e led i h, b hen o ge do n o he fif h cen , and indeed he la e pa of he fif h cen , he e i a ma elo doc men ha o ill be eading in Th c dide , he famo f ne al o a ion of Pe icle deli e ed in he in e of 431 - 430 B.C., he e one of he, in m j dgmen , g ea hing abo Pe icle a ha he had gi en a g ea deal of ho gh o hi p oblem and p e en ed he be a g men he co ld hink of fo ol ing ha p oblem, hich a o claim ha he indi id al' highe need and g ea e pe onal and famil goal co ld be me onl h o gh he poli , ha hi ell being a ied p ine icabl i h he ell being of he poli . C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 4/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html N , ' ' , .I , , .I poli , , , poli , , G G .T , G , .E ,I , ; , poli ; P .I D -A .T poli , .A poli I , . , G , , ?" U . , , C C .B , ; ' ' .I , R R TV G S C /A , .T , I ?W , I , .L ," , .B G .A I' , , , , , , , , , .I G , , , poli , , . , ' .Y A , G , poli , , .A N , G , poli . , N , C G ' .O .T I I' ? W I , I , ,R ; , .I , I , /transcript05.html .H , , , , ' ' ?H , . 5/12 G , , , , G , I ' C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ 2/7/12 transcript05.html T C G ,I C M ,H G , , ,V D , H , , F S , C .A G , I .A I I H , .Y D , A M .I , , H , H -, , oikos, , oikos , O , H , G , , , M G . , , .T ; , .T ; .T .Y , ?Y .W , , D , ,I , --, .N , , , I . D A , H I ' ?Y ' .T , K L P , ,I . , polis , , C V ' , I , G , , , H .B W , , , T .T , L ' .R .T , ; .I , .W I , ?W ' M Od sse , O , G ? , .W , . , ' .T A , , , , N , , , C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 6/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html .T , G , .T ' , , .S , , .T , .S kle o , oiko , , , kle o , .P , , , ' oiko . , , , .A H , A H , .O , .T , .I , I , ; 700 B.C., , .T .T G , , . .I , H , . Y B , G , ' .W .T . N H , , , , , ' , ' , .Y I ' , , ; ?O 900 , , ' .T .S , .Y , , -H H .I , , . , .S , , .B , -A T ' Z .M . .H .I ; ' I' ." H ," F , W , ' C , ?H , G , /transcript05.html , , A .T A 7/12 C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ 2/7/12 transcript05.html , E .T ; ' .S , , ; , .F .T .I , .B .N W , .I G , W , , ; , ' .T , , , , .Y , A , ; .S , , .O poli , , C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html . H .I' .E .T , .V -.T , , G ?I ' ' , , , , , .S , , , ' ' .S , .S , , ; ' .P ' .S ' , , .M , , .N H , , .Y ' , 8/12 .A M .S .O I . C , , , ' ; ' .E I ?H .S , ?T N , ' .A , , ' . ' .T -. . I' ?W , .B , , .A , .B ; , , , . ' , .T , ' N , G , ' , , , ' ' ' ' , , D A , 2/7/12 transcript05.html good o o . Chance a e o had o pa ome hing fo hem; he a e like a machine. If a la e die o go o b a ne machine, and hile he' ali e o go o feed him. So, hen o ' e alking abo a e poo ocie , o ' e no going o ee m ch la e , b i i e, ha a he famil fa m I' e been de c ibing come in o being, a a i fo nd o e la e in a p od c i e, po i i e a , po i i e f om he andpoin of p ofi . The ea on fo ha i , if o a e j engaged in a ingle c op fa ming, ell o plan i , o ake ca e of i , and hen hen he ime come o eap i . Wha do o do in be een? Well, he e' no m ch o do. So, o ha e o feed he la e all ea o nd o o k onl a mall pa of he ime, ha ' no e p ofi able. B Han on' fa m, a I like o hink of i , he e' o k o do all ea o nd, beca e he e diffe en c op need a en ion a diffe en ime , and he need diffe en kind of a en ion, and ome of hem need all kind of e ha d o k o keep hem going, o ha he e' plen of o k o be done ha i ef l and p ofi able. The efo e, o ill p od ce eno gh p ofi o make i po ible, o ha he e mall fa m , o ho ld imagine had one o o la e pla ing a pa in hi e pe ience. I mean, o ho ld no imagine hen I a la e --j ake o of o mind he plan a ion of he old So h, beca e hen o onl ha e one o o la e , he ma e i o king igh along ide hem, doing e ac l he ame o k ha he a e doing, and al o in c ing hem and elling hem ha ' ha . If o an o eall nde and hi in a p ac ical en e, i ' mo e a ho gh he e g a e hi ed hand . I mean, he li e in he ho e, he ge fed, p obabl i h e e bod el e, he o k i h he ma e ; he diffe ence being ha he a e la e a he han f ee men. One of he f nn hing i ha he eme gence of hi famil fa m gi e i e o he polis' cha ac e a a land in hich he e i a ci i en , hich i o a f ee men ho le hem el e . So, he polis ill ee he in en ion of f eedom in hi a , and oddl eno gh, i i accompanied b he g o h of la e a he ame ime. Bo h la e and f eedom come along a he ame ime in he G eek o ld. One of he in e e ing doc men e ha e i a f agmen a in c ip ion f om he I land of Chio . I hink i ' in he eigh h cen ha Han on poin o i ele an he e. On i he e i li le lang age and i ' ob io i ' alking abo ome kind of a o n co ncil. Thi i he fi ime e ha e ch a efe ence. The G eek o d a e, bo le he demosia; he be an la ion I can come p i h i he co ncil fo he people. I doe n' mean he co ncil of he people nece a il , ha o ld gge ome hing democ a ic. I ' p obabl mo e oliga chic o a i oc a ic, b he poin i hi i ome hing e ha en' hea d of e e befo e. The e i clea l ome kind of an official g o p ha ha ome o of poli ical ole o pla , hich i pop la in i cha ac e . I ' he o d demos ha ' a he oo of demosia and demos mean he people, all he people. Tha ' one of i meaning and I hink i ' he meaning ha ' ele an he e. A Han on poin o , onl in ea l G eece did independen ag a ian ha e f ee i le o hei land, o n la e , and l ima el o of hi co ncil ha I old o abo , l ima el , came o ha e con ol of hei o n comm ni ie . Al ho gh he poli ical de elopmen came la e in he p oce , i did come. A Han on a , he ne fa me i no j a diffe en kind of fa me , b a diffe en kind of pe on. He i a ci i en in hi poli ical ole, he i a oldie b he i a oldie no in he pa o he hi e of a king, o of an a i oc ac ; he i a ci i en oldie ho ha pa icipa ed in he deci ion ha a i i ime o go o a and ho ill pla an ac i e ole in making deci ion abo hi a e' polic and beha io . He i independen in a a ha nobod ho a no a king o an a i oc a in he pa ha e e been--a ne kind of man, he backbone of he polis a i eme ge . I don' an o o e a e hi . The e i ill an a i oc ac made p of he old g and he don' j di appea and he e ill be a long e ch in hich he e ill be ome deg ee of conflic be een he e ne independen fa me and he old e abli hed a i oc ac , and ne e doe ha a i oc ac go a a , ha ' old. I'm impl empha i ing ha ' ne in he i a ion and i ' e ne indeed. C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 9/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html I migh j a a li le bi mo e. Han on ha a ma elo i a ion in hich he' he chola elling abo he e de elopmen in he o ld of ancien ag ic l e and fa ming, b he' al o an ac i e fa me and eac ing o ha happen o fa me oda , and he' i en a book, a onde f l book called, Fields Without Dreams, hich i he o of mode n fa ming in Ame ica. B hi i al o e of all of We e n E ope, hich ha o do p e m ch i h he aboli ion of fa me and I j don' hink i ' igh fo me o pa i ho men ioning he ignificance. Nobod kno an hing abo i . Wha pe cen age of Ame ican do o hink o ked on fa m a he end of he nine een h cen ? T en , hi pe cen ? Yo be e belie e i ' i o e en pe cen , and he f he back o go in Ame ican hi o he clo e i i o nine and nine -fi e pe cen . Tha ' he hi o of he o ld; he hole h man ace ha pen he b lk of i ime fa ming. Wha pe cen age of Ame ican a e engaged in fa ming oda ? Well, he fig e I a la a a n mbe oo mall o be men ioned; I mean, o a o j can' eall a ho m ch i i , b all igh , o pe cen . Doe an bod kno a fa me ? Ho , ho come? J b acciden ; ill fa ming? God ble him. I hi on fa ming? No kidding, he e i hi ? Fan a ic, ha ' a ma elo hing; plea e gi e him m g ee ing . B i ' kind of a mi acle; I don' kno an fa me . Oh eah, I kno Han on, b if I didn' kno him, I o ldn' kno an fa me . So, no I don' an o go oo deepl in o hi , b if o ' e in e e ed in hi bjec ge a hold of hi book. Wha i ine capable i fa me a e a ociological ca ego of people, diffe en f om non-fa me in all kind of c i ical a , and i i j an e ample of ho hi hole b ine ha di appea ed. Nobod e en hink abo i an mo e. If o e e o a o me, ha do o hink i he mo impo an hing, ho e e o define hing, ha ha changed he cha ac e of life in he Uni ed S a e in he en ie h cen , I o ld a he di appea ance of fa me . The e a e o man a in hich ha ha changed he o ld, b I can' do j ice o i b Han on doe , o if o an o ead, Fields Without Dreams, o can ponde he ignificance of hi g ea change. No , I' e alked o o e en iall abo he economic a pec of hi phenomenon and I'd like o n ne --gi e me a econd he e I j an o find o he e I am in hi . The e a e all m p oof o ppo all he hing ha I' e al ead old o , b I'm no going o bo he p o ing i , i o ld ake oo long. Well, I g e he ne hing I migh men ion i in he a ea of poli ic . If o look a he o ld of M cenae once again, e' e al ead een hi , o ha e a de po i m of ome kind. Yo ha e ome kind of a lo d, I mean a king, fo lack of a be e name, a mona ch ho f ndamen all le and e e bod i bjec o him. He ha an a i oc ac a o nd him, he ha a lo of helpe , b he' he bo and ha ' ha o ee in he o ld e e he e el e. Af e ha , if o e amine a be e can he ci ie of he Da k Age and a k ha kind of go e nmen , if o an o e ha o d, o ld he e comm ni ie ha e had, o p obabl o ldn' do badl if o looked a he Od sse fo he be cl e o co ld find. Of co e, he on' be pe fec , he e' a mi ed cha ac e of he o ld of Home , b ill, if o look a he o ld of Od e , hi home, ha ' going on in I haca, he e a e ome al able cl e . The e i omebod in ha o ld called a basileus, ho i a ingle indi id al ho i nde ood o be pe io in ome a o e e bod el e. Ho e e , he' no e pe io o e e bod el e. He ha all of he e noblemen a o nd him, all of hom claim o be basileis, a o ecall, and a fai e a o p hi o ld be ha hi i la gel an a i oc a ic ocie , ha a o concl ion af e e looked a he poem of Home , and I hink ha ' ha con in e , e en af e he o ld of M cenae. People ho had po e b i e of hei eal h, b i e of hei pe onal ph ical eng h ma be, b i e of hei de cen beca e people al a ha e heo ie abo indi id al in hei ocie , I mean ea l ocie ie , ho e e bo n o he p ple o o peak, b ha e e he c i e ia e e, and bi h al a a a c i ical c i e ion in he da of he a i oc acie , o o ld ha e a i oc acie ho o ld ha e he p ac ical, he de facto con ol of hing . C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 10/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html W , , G , .H , , .I ecclesia, boul , , ' M , , , , , I G , , G ecclesia boul , , , ?T , .M , , , ; . polis , polis I ' .S , .T -, D A .N I' , ' , , , , , I T ' ; ' , -- I , --I' .T , ' . S .O , , , , , , I , , G W ' .A , I' , , G , .E , , . , poleis. Y , , , , .S , , I' polis , , .S , ' .I ' ,I H , , , .W , , - , , , C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 11/12 2/7/12 transcript05.html has so man significant consequences. Oka . [end of transcript] back to top C:/Users/JIMMIN~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$EX12.566/ /transcript05.html 12/12 ...
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