Animal Liberation and Environmental Ethics-Mark Sagoff
Sagoff's thesis: a humanitarian ethic (an appreciation of the welfare of animals) will not help us
to understand or to justify an environmental ethic or establish environmental law
Philosophical Problems for Environmentalism-Elliot Sober
The environmental movement faces difficulties finding theoretical justification
The problem for environmentalism stems from the idea that species and ecosystems
ought to be preserved for reasons ad
Sagoff-Do we consume too much?
Do we consume too much?
No, we are not exceeding what the Earth can provide for us
Yes, morally we (the developed world) does consume too much
Environmentalists think we consume too much:
We are diminishing the Earth's na
and desire to go deeper into the nature of things. These too, like
Cephalus, Polemarchus, Thrasymachus, are clearly distinguished from one
another. Neither in the Republic, nor in any other Dialogue of Plato, is
a single character repeated.
You are not far wrong, I said.
But do you see, he rejoined, how many we are?
And are you stronger than all these? for if not, you will have to remain
where you are.
May there not be the alternative, I said, that we may persuade you to
let us go
Very good, I replied.
Accordingly we went with Polemarchus to his house; and there we found
his brothers Lysias and Euthydemus, and with them Thrasymachus the
Chalcedonian, Charmantides the Paeanian, and Cleitophon the son of
Aristonymus. There too was Ce
One, he said, of which I could not expect easily to convince others. For
let me tell you, Socrates, that when a man thinks himself to be near
death, fears and cares enter into his mind which he never had before;
the tales of a world below and the
- to speak the truth and to pay your debts - no more than this? And
even to this are there not exceptions? Suppose that a friend when in his
right mind has deposited arms with me and he asks for them when he is
not in his right mind, ought I to give them
him and saying that he was famous, not for his own merits but because he
was an Athenian: "If you had been a native of my country or I of yours,
neither of us would have been famous." And to those who are not rich and
are impatient of old age, the same re
eat, I cannot drink; the pleasures of youth and love are fled away:
there was a good time once, but now that is gone, and life is no longer
life. Some complain of the slights which are put upon them by relations,
and they will tell you sadly of how many e
as "not of this world." And with this representation of him the ideal
State and the other paradoxes of the Republic are quite in accordance,
though they can not be shown to have been speculations of Socrates. To
him, as to other great teachers both philos
The nature of the process is truly characterized by Glaucon, when he
describes himself as a companion who is not good for much in an
investigation, but can see what he is shown, and may, perhaps, give the
answer to a question more fluently than another.
Adeimantus; Polemarchus; Cephalus; Thrasymachus; Cleitophon; And others
who are mute auditors. The scene is laid in the house of Cephalus at the
Piraeus; and the whole dialogue is narrated by Socrates the day after it
actually took place to Timaeus, Hermo
of youth; Adeimantus has the maturer judgment of a grown-up man of the
world. In the second book, when Glaucon insists that justice and
injustice shall be considered without regard to their consequences,
Adeimantus remarks that they are regarded by mankin
contemporary Herodicus, "thou wast ever bold in battle," seems to show
that the description of him is not devoid of verisimilitude.
When Thrasymachus has been silenced, the two principal respondents,
Glaucon and Adeimantus, appear on the scene: here, as i
of C. F. Hermann, that Glaucon and Adeimantus are not the brothers but
the uncles of Plato, or the fancy of Stallbaum that Plato intentionally
left anachronisms indicating the dates at which some of his Dialogues
The principal cha
the Phaedrus, is the personification of the Sophists, according to
Plato's conception of them, in some of their worst characteristics. He
is vain and blustering, refusing to discourse unless he is paid, fond of
making an oration, and hoping thereby to esc
history. The writer is not fashioning his ideas into an artistic whole;
they take possession of him and are too much for him. We have no need
therefore to discuss whether a State such as Plato has conceived is
practicable or not, or whether the outward fo
upon him by the Oracle, leads him to ask questions of all men, young and
old alike, should also be noted. Who better suited to raise the question
of justice than Cephalus, whose life might seem to be the expression of
it? The moderation with which old age
use in such general descriptions, but they can hardly be said to express
the design of the writer. The truth is, that we may as well speak of
many designs as of one; nor need anything be excluded from the plan of a
great work to which the mind is naturall
That must have been his meaning, he said.
By heaven! I replied; and if we asked him what due or proper thing is
given by medicine, and to whom, what answer do you think that he would
make to us?
He would surely reply that medicine gives drugs and me
to return a return a deposit of arms or of anything else to one who asks
for it when he is not in his right senses; and yet a deposit cannot be
denied to be a debt.
Then when the person who asks me is not in his right mind I am by no
means to make t
And in what sort of actions or with a view to what result is the just
man most able to do harm to his enemy and good to his friends?
In going to war against the one and in making alliances with the other.
But when a man is well, my dear Polemar
Glaucon and the rest of the company joined in my request and
Thrasymachus, as any one might see, was in reality eager to speak; for
he thought that he had an excellent answer, and would distinguish
himself. But at first he to insist on my answering; at le
Well, he said, have you never heard that forms of government differ;
there are tyrannies, and there are democracies, and there are
Yes, I know.
And the government is the ruling power in each state?
And the different forms of gove
interest of some sort, but you go on to say "of the stronger"; about
this addition I am not so sure, and must therefore consider further.
I will; and first tell me, Do you admit that it is just or subjects to
obey their rulers?
But are the
subjects to do what is not for his own interest; whence follows that
justice is the injury quite as much as the interest of the stronger.
But, said Cleitophon, he meant by the interest of the stronger what the
stronger thought to be his interest, - this w
What is that you are saying? he asked.
I am only repeating what you are saying, I believe. But let us consider:
Have we not admitted that the rulers may be mistaken about their own
interest in what they command, and also that to obey them is justice?
is the ruler, is unerring, and, being unerring, always commands that
which is for his own interest; and the subject is required to execute
his commands; and therefore, as I said at first and now repeat, justice
is the interest of the stronger.
Enough, I said, of these civilities. It will be better that I should ask
you a question: Is the physician, taken in that strict sense of which
you are speaking, a healer of the sick or a maker of money? And remember
that I am now speaking of the true phys